I go into these Finals with a bias resembling that of everyone outside the greater Miami area – I hate the Heat. Whether that hate is rational is another story. In the face of my bias, I will nonetheless try to point out bawfulness whether or not it resides in a Heat uniform.

NBA Finals Mavericks Heat Basketball

In a related story, Oakland Raider fans deemed "sane."


Hell, I might even point out awfulness on other channels. Did you know America’s Got Talent? Well, now I do. Think a LeBron James dunk is more thrilling than a man standing in water juggling 500,000 volt tasers attached to sticks? Well, what happens to LeBron when he misses a dunk? He just misses the dunk. You know what happens to taser juggler if he falters? Instant, public, humiliating death – on a stick. Literally.

Side note: Should the Finals loser be subjected to instant, public, humiliating death? Discuss.

Alright, let’s get on with it:

Erik Spoelstra has an opening interview in which he is finally starting to tone down the drama talk about all that his team has been through. Perhaps the Heat public relations folk have finally given him a talking to (after they read this blog of course).

In this Interview, Spo uses terms like “A little bit uncomfortable” “a little bit of adversity”…that’s more like it. Thanks, Erik, yes…a slow start and a five game losing streak a few months ago is does not quite equal the “a lot of heartache” you’ve been touting in the past.

1st Quarter:

5:46 remaining – teams combine for 4 for 19 shooting. Feeling each other out. Typical start for two teams shaking off the nerves.

3:26 left – LeBron puts his hand into Kidd’s forearm after a three-pointer is away. It’s almost like he does this to get into the shooter’s head. Still, it’s dangerous – while a look at NBA rules reveals nothing to prevent this, officials call it, altogether now…inconsistently. Still, LeBron is at home, so I think he’ll be OK.

37.3 – Jason Terry gets fouled trying to dunk on LeBron. Jeff Van Gundy (JVG) indicates it could be an offensive foul. “If anything that could have been an offensive foul, wiping away.” Replay shows Terry extended the off arm, but LeBron was all over him and an offensive foul call would have been absurd. I’m starting to think that JVG is addicted to contrarianism – whatever you have to say, whatever is the standard line of thought, he will question it, play Devil’s advocate, consider an alternative line of thinking. At times, this results in the most brilliant, insightful commentary. At others, it makes you wonder if he’s smoking the peyote.

:15 – James “almost” gets his third foul elbowing Barea in the face. Slow motion replay shows Barea was trying to sell it. Good no call.

114832789MW038_Dallas_Maver

Pictured: Stifling _allas _efense


2nd quarter:

11:26 – Bosh with a nasty slam off a Lebron miss. Miami up: 18-17

10:07 – Haslem and Miller double-team Dirk, earning a jump ball. Defense on Dirk has been solid, making the German seem out of rhythm.

Side Note: The single benefit to the Heat winning the Finals will be less talk comparing Dirk to Larry Bird. I’ve already made my stance known on this issue

10:02 – Chalmers steals the ball from Barea off the jump. While trying to secure the ball, Chalmers steps out of bounds twice. JVG starts with the peyote talk: “Here’s the thing…if his dribble is released when his foot is on the line, and then it comes up, and then he touches the ball, I don’t think that’s out of bounds. That’s very hard to see, certainly, but…”

For a second, I’m wondering if this is surprise brilliance in a bottle – I mean, has JVG just discovered a new basketball law in which you could jump out of bounds each time the ball leaves your hands during the dribbling motion? Then, of course, a little extra thought makes the whole notion come down like a house of cards – you’d have to reestablish both feet in bounds between each dribble, yada yada. God, what would it be like to live in JVG’s brain for a day?

Anyway, his comment on the dribbling-out-of-bounds argument is deservedly ignored – even by Breen, who is essentially paid to listen to him.

6:54 – Bosh acts his way into an over the back call, negating Haywood’s resulting hook shot. This strikes me as the first play that would qualify for consideration in my Actual Score champion idea. Assuming it’s in effect, Mavs go to +2.

America’s got talent alert:
Amazingly the guy standing in water juggling 1.5 million volts has walked away unharmed. Some dude who just sings and dances, however, manages to almost kill himself falling off stage.

5:44 – Breen, Mark Jackson (MJ), and JVG discuss the way LeBron made his decision: From Breen: “[The Heat are] still a team the fans root against…you take away the decision, you take away the press conference, this is an unselfish team, hard-working team, they play defense, they do all the right things…all lot of people still look at them as villains.” Yes, they do, Mike. I wonder what JVG has to say on the subject?

JVG, quote machine: “You look at LeBron James, he’s never gotten in any type of scandal. All he decided to do was go to a different place to work, and it just shows you that we celebrate athletes that go through addictions, go through problems with the law…this isn’t what LeBron James has had problems with. He made a questionable decision at best to have ‘The Decision’ and I think maybe the Miami Heat organization did themselves a disservice by having that over the top celebration…If that’s all they’ve done wrong, I don’t understand why [the hatred] is prolonged, unless it’s because [fans] don’t like players who jump from one team to another. They like to see what Nowitzki did, stay with one team their whole career.”

JVG’s got me thinking again, that bastard brainiac. Yup, LeBron hasn’t had a whiff of a drug scandal, a misdemeanor, a sexual assault, and yet so many, including myself, despise him for what he did. My best analysis of this would be that we don’t really care what athletes do to themselves or to those around them, no matter how heinous it might be. We are a self-centered society, we are. And when LeBron decided to take his talents to South Beath, and not to my team, or yours – he insulted me, and you – personally. I mean, if he was going to slight his home state, he should have at the very least become a Celtic, right?

JVG has more words to put us all to shame: “Wouldn’t every working American want to choose where they work and who they work with if they could? And so we resent the thing that we would want in our own profession.”

Thanks Jeff, for making me want to kill myself for being such a selfish bastard. And then you have to go and be hilarious too:

JVG: “I think it does bother [LeBron], what other people think of him.”
MJ: “I don’t think it bothers him at all. I think it motivates him to continue to be great.”
JVG: “I disagree with that. I think he was already motivated.”
MJ: “You disagree with everything I say.”
JVG: “I disagree.”

2:18 – Dirk hits an unguardable shot off the glass

1:26 – Chalmers 3 ties the game at 38.

1:12 – Kidd alley oop to Chandler. Awesome. It’s not a Mavs game without at least one of those.

Nearing the half, someone mentions that Stuart Scott has cancer. I feel like I have been under a rock. A googling of “Stuart Sco…” prompts the following top Google suggestions:

Stuart
Stuart Scott cancer
Stuart Scott glass eye


Cancer is ABOVE “glass eye”? Damn, how do I not know this? My TV is on Sports Center all day long. They made a point to tell me Jalen Rose was arrested for DUI, but I missed the big C? See how selfish a society we are? Stuart Scott has cancer, and all I care about is that I didn’t know it. My personal shame meter has reached 8.

Halftime
44-43 Mavericks


Dirk is a pedestrian 4-10, but the Mavs are up one...not a good sign for the heat. Although nothing that seems to be a bad sign for the Heat has really mattered these days, given how they’re finishing games.

Dwayne Wade interview: When asked about all the people who seem to hate the Heat. D Wade takes it 18 intellectual levels down from a typical JVG conversation:

D Wade, Quote machine: “When you look at the letters that’s in HEAT, it equals HATE. You can take HATE right out of HEAT. It’s fitting.”

Dwayne then proceeded to list the rest of the words that can be made from the letter in HEAT:

EAT
ATE
HE
TEA
AT
HAT

Made me think: Forget the basketball court, he might even kick my ass in Boggle.

3rd quarter:

Mavericks open the second half on a 7-0 run. Mavs 51-43, but no lead seems safe…

Fun fact: Graphic indicates that the average age of the Mavs starting five is 32.2 years. Is Jason Kidd 50 or something?

6:30 left – Haywood misses a dunk – Look for it on the "Not top ten."

5:48 – Marion puts Mavs up 57-53

WIRED with Erik Spoelstra:

ES: “This is gonna be a grind. Get into the grind.” I think he has said that over and over in each of the last three playoff series, has he not? Thank the Lord we have young minds like his to fill the coaching void left behind by Phil Jackson.

Haywood steps to the freethrow line: Stat shows his FT shooting at 36 percent in the regular season, 46 percent in the playoffs. How many guys are there in the league could have Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo jointly snicker at his freethrow shooting?

1:11 – James 3-pointer puts the Hate up by 1 – 60-59. And it begins.

0:00 – LeBron sticks another 3 before the buzzer. 65-61 Hate.

4th Quarter:

11:45 – Alley oop to LeBron broken up by...Chris Bosh. Apparently only the Heat can stop the Heat.

11:00 – Miller 3-pointer puts the Heat up 68-63.

Carlisle is upset at a guy in the stands waving a huge flag on Haywood’s freethrows. JVG with a nice quote about Haywood’s crappy FT shooting: “Maybe that’s a good thing, that [Haywood] gets disrupted at the freethrow line.”

10:31 – JVG with a George Bushism quote machine: “Jason Kidd is 38 and he’s playing with the energy and speed of a guard who’s, like, in his 30’s.”

9:28 – Bosh falls all over himself and gets 24 second violation. Ends on the floor hugging the ball. Pure Boshiness.

8:43 – Loose ball foul on Nowitzki. There is nothing there. Horrible call. Only thing the official could have been seeing is Mike Miller a few feet away lunging forward as if pushed. Breen “Didn’t look like there was a lot there.” Actual score adjustment: Mavs +2

7:32 – Ridiculous offensive foul on Chander. Haslem hooks Chandler, who is standing still for a pick. Haslem sells the bologna. JVG: “Dis-a-gree” MJ: “Ditto.” Breen “Haslem sold that pretty well.” Actual score adjustment: Mavs +2.

5:41 – LeBron hits arm after ball gone on a Terry three. No call. As I said earlier, technically not a foul, but risky. But not all that risky at home. Steve Javie ignores Terry flop. No point adjustment.

3:58 – Marion gets a foul call on Mike Miller. Breen: “That’s the right call” JVG: “Ho, ho, ho, [Marion] ducks his head and uses it as a battering ram on Mike Miller. What is Mike Miller supposed to do?” JVG apparently not counting the headlock by Mike Miller as relevant. No point adjustment.

3:44 – Dirk Nowitzki – Clean strip on Chris Bosh, who sells it with a flail. MJ and JVG agree it was a clean strip. Actual score adjustment: Mavs +2.

3:06 – 82-73 – D Wade three makes it 82-73 Hate.

2:48 – Filthy LeBron slam punctuates the finish.



Final - 92-84
With actual score adjustments: 92-92. Damn it. Imaginary overtime? Oh well, the Hate are consistently performing well down the stretch, so we’ll give them this one, grudgingly. Heat up: 1 game to none.

And now comes the news that Dirk has a torn tendon in his finger, so what's it matter now anyway? Heat in 6.

Labels: , , ,

75 Comments:
Blogger chris said...
Brendan Haywood is like Shaq!

Except for the "Shaq eventually finds free throw form" and "most dominant goofball evar" parts.

Sigh.

Has any one city's possible championship ever been dreaded so much by an entire planet before?

Anonymous JJ said...
I like JVG soooo much more as a commentator than as a coach though he wasn't a bad coach. His comments are far more entertaining than MJ's limited repertoire of "Hand down, man down" and "Momma, there goes that man!" Please come up with new lines, MJ.

Anonymous kono said...
I would submit that appearing on WotN is a worser fate than instant, public, humiliating death.

Blogger Caleb Smith said...
Very entertaining live blog.

And I love JVG. Breen is a bore. Jackson is an idiot. JVG makes them worth listening to.

Anonymous Axel F said...
No. I will now throw up inside my mouth.

Anonymous Stockton said...
Didn't follow the game...
How is Stern's finger?

Anonymous Axel F said...
Article on how Wade is washed up

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29695/watching-wade-and-worrying

Anonymous The Other Chris said...
Has any one city's possible championship ever been dreaded so much by an entire planet before?

Now, chris, don't get all America-centric and over-dramatic on us. The Champions League finals between Barcelona and Manchester United was watched by an estimated 400 million people, which by my modest calculations is more than the entire populations of our countries combined.

Compared to such things, the NBA championships are barely a blip on the planet's radar..

Anonymous Jon L. said...
I think the Mavs will rebound to come back and win the series. You may call me crazy, but Dirk will explode next game....you can count on that.

Blogger Sol Orwell said...
Boshiness?

No no.

"LIKE A BOSH"

There, better.

Honestly, the most fun I have now is yelling out "LIKE A BOSH" - from his putback dunk to his falling over the ball and cradling it like a baby.

Anonymous Marylander said...
Miami outplayed Dallas. I said Miami in 5, and after watching this game there's no chance that Dallas is winning the title let alone winning 2 games against Miami. Let
see how that splint will affect Dirk's shooting.

Blogger Apocalypse34 said...
The only recent one I can come up with would be if the New England Patriots had beaten the New York Giants in the Super Bowl a few years ago. Especially with the perfect record on the line after the camera scandal.

Blogger Ash said...
Heat will not repeat. Quote and bookmark this post.

People are going to be gunning for them twice as hard next year, and Wade looks pretty done at this point.

Blogger TeamD said...
JVG has more words to put us all to shame: “Wouldn’t every working American want to choose where they work and who they work with if they could? And so we resent the thing that we would want in our own profession.”

Bastard JVG read my comment from yesterday LOL

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Your actual score adjustment is biased and unreliable at best. Each time there is a foul that you question, you automatically put two points. For example, you put +2 Mavs on the offensive foul on Tyson Chandler. So you're assuming that they would've scored if they didn't turn it over. Weak analysis there.

Blogger stephanie g said...
Mike Bibby is making a strong push for worst starting PG on a finals team ever. His playoff numbers: 3.4 ppg, 1.3 apg, 25% FG, PER of 2.2.

I bet over the summer Spoelstra read some sort of corporate managerial how to be a leader type book and just has a huge list of corny aphorisms in his back pocket. I think it'd be funny to compile them all but that would involve listening to hours of Erik Spoelstra talking. I remember several months back he kept talking about not letting go of the rope, or pulling on the rope. WHAT ROPE? The one in gym class? Are we dangling on the side of a mountain? Auto erotic asphyxiation? What?

Here's an announcer cliche we can think about retiring now: talking about a new player "changing the culture."

Last night's game was sluggish. The crowd wasn't really into it. Kinda felt like a regular season game but maybe that's just me. Bosh has a tendency to go baseline, get stuck, and then flail. Usually he gets bailed out but not last night. And Dirk had a blatant 3 step travel. They even showed it on slow mo replay. It doesn't feel so bad from him though since he's slow and white. He needs all the help he can get!

Anonymous Anonymous said...
I have a very good feeling about Dallas winning the next game. They are going to rebound from their mistakes and hopefully, hit the open jumpers.

Blogger Will said...
The Other Chris- Good call on the CL, even if Barça and ManU are the two teams I hate the most.
Marylander- He hurt his non-shooting hand so not one bit.

Anonymous Wouter said...
How is this blog even about basketbawful anymore? Last couple of posts have been homerism about the Bulls and just completely anti Heat. Isn't this supposed to be a neutral thing? It's starting to get sad really.

In related, completely ridiculous homerism news: Reilly's piece on "Pulling for big D" is just sad to read. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6614490

Oh and... I'm going to miss Shaq. Hope he doesn't go away from the league completely.

Anonymous Business Time said...
Woj's latest article: "The Heat’s stars come hard, come unforgiving and come again and again."

Blogger Basketbawful said...
How is this blog even about basketbawful anymore?

Basketbawful is like Gozer...it's whatever it wants to be.

But, in all seriousness, I'm not sure you can really minimize six-plus years worth of free content based on two posts.

Blogger David said...
I felt good about the result as a Heat fan.

Dallas shot 40% from three, had 8 more free throw attempts, Dirk played well, the Heat played worse than expected offensively...... and the result was still a comfortable win.

The most surprising thing about the game was Miami shooting as poorly from the floor as they did. When Dallas goes to their bench, there are mismatches everywhere that we can exploit..... and they still were under 40%.

Going forward, I'd expect them to do better. Dallas is likely to shoot it better too, though, so the series is far from over.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
First off, Jon L is an idiot. As for Basketbawful, I hope you haters are starting to see what's happening. This Heat team, who none of you saw making it past the Celtics, are possibly winning it all this year. If and when this happens, they will get rid of the Big Z's and Bibby's and add even better pieces to this already unstoppable force of chemistry. I hope you losers have to have watch this for the next 6 years and this unarguably turns into the best dynasty in NBA history. Eat it up haters.

Blogger chris said...
The Other Chris:

I have a feeling though that Barca vs. Man U did NOT have an 85%-rooting-against-one-team percentage though...

Anonymous Tim Whatley said...
People come on this (free) blog and go, “Hey, wait a second, you aren’t saying what I want you to say and I don’t like that because I’m entitled to never being offended” or something to that effect.
It just amazes me that people feel that you owe them something on a free blog. You could make the entire blog all about who shot first Han or Greedo and nobody could complain.....but I kindly ask that you don't do that.

Blogger Dick Sullivan said...
First off, Jon L is an idiot.

Huh, Keith Olbermann is a Bawful fan?

In the words of the Drunk History guy throwing up a bottle of absinthe: this is my nightmare. Objects are neither closer nor further away than they appear. That first game captured the situation with total accuracy. Eff the Mavs fan life. They weren't even supposed to make it this far and I suppose they'll still get credit for choking.

If you don't understand why the Heat are nauseating, then you don't understand why anyone would hate the Yankees. Read: you're not very bright.

Anonymous Waingro said...
I hope you haters are starting to see what's happening. {...} I hope you losers have to have watch this for the next 6 years and this unarguably turns into the best dynasty in NBA history. Eat it up haters.

Two points:

1) People who use the term "haters" as a form of argument are, without exception, morons.

2) You are the type of shit-eating gimp that rooted for the Chicago Bulls and Dallas Cowboys throughout the 90's. You represent everything horrible about sports fandom and you are worse than Pol Pot and Hitler.

Anonymous Tree said...
@Anonymous at 2:58: get over it, the biggest 'haters' (people still use that lame term?) out there seem to be Heat "fans" hating on people noting some truths about the team and some of its players. Truth is, I don't think 'hate' is the proper term for how real basketball fans feel about that team. I would say it's more like a complete lack of respect for that team: how they formed (collusion and cowardice), how they celebrated their 7 championships last July, how they bitched and moaned all year about people hating them (and sounding like pre-pubescent girls), all the other dumb comments that they made (and subsequent inability to understand why people don't like them), the buying a championship approach to winning ... it goes on. You could term my feelings toward that team as 'hate', but in reality it's more a fundamental lack of respect for the team, the players and any future championships they purchased. They are a strong reason why a lot of fans are starting to believe a lockout may fix a very broken league.

To wit: the past 31 titles were won by 8 teams - remove the single time winners, and 29 of the last 31 were won by 6 teams ... this is not an anomaly repeated in any other pro sport (for context, # of winners over the same period for the other sports: MLB 22, NFL 16, NHL 15 ... and each of these leagues has had multiple dynasties over this period). Most of today's players are massive pussies - they want the easiest route to money, fame and wins possible. I didn't renew season tickets for next year, and I will defer to the new CBA before I decide if I ever will again. There's only so long that the NBA can have 6 annual contenders with a few pretenders sprinkled in and 24 feeder teams and maintain fan interest.

PS: strong comments from a lot of people that won't even give their real names

PPS: Yes, Tree is in fact my real name (albeit a short form similar to Bill, Tom, Don etc.)

Blogger Cortez said...
"Tim Whatley"

What are you, some sort of troublemaker?

Anonymous Kazam92 said...
What's left of Mike Miller scoffs at Dirk's torn tendon.

Ugly game. Good finish for Miami, but Dallas won't miss those shots again. And can someone please euthanize Mike Bibby already?

Blogger Barry said...
Seems to there's quite a lot of stupidity and hate in these comments section nowadays - an influx of Ball Don't Lie people if you will.

I still love the posts and a lot of the comments are still great too but sometimes I feel like I should read the article and leave the comments-sections for what they are.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Well Mr. Tree, I agree with what you're saying, but how are you any less anonymous than me?

Anonymous Stockton said...
A few thoughts...

1. Basketbawfull rules!!!!!!!!!
2. Heat suck balls!!!
3. Ostertag is better than Joel Anthony.
4. Jazz will win it all next year!!!

Keep on the good work!!!

Blogger David said...
Tree,

RE - "Buying championships" and "cowardice."

I'll say the same thing to you on that subject that I've been saying since the decision happened -

You don't win in the NBA unless you have multiple hall of famers or multiple all stars on your team.

The notion that other stars like Jordan "did it themselves" is a fallacy.

Magic had Kareem and Worthy (three hall of famers).

MJ had Pippen and later Rodman (three hall of famers).

Bird had McHale and Parish (three hall of famers.

I could go on.

My point is that LeBron and Bosh didn't have that kind of help, and they weren't going to get that kind of help unless they left their home teams in free agency to join with other great players.

They had a choice - They could martyr themselves the way KG did, wasting their primes with teams that would never win due to a lack of a second hall of fame type player...... Or they could do what their team's general managers failed to do for 7 years and get the help themselves.

I don't see how you can fault them for deciding to take matters into their own hands after waiting 7 years for help that never arrived.

Blogger Wormboy said...
"Momma, there goes that man!" was kind of funny the first couple of times he said it. You know, once or twice in the playoffs for some particularly studly play. EVERY SINGLE GAME is annoying the hell out of me.

JVG is cracking me up. And I am pleased that at least one announcer has the stones to note bad officiating, like Bill Walton used to do. Doubtlessly JVG will be disappeared from broadcasting next year as a result of his displeasing the Mighty Stern. And how can JVG and SVG be related? Ron Jeremy and a strange, funny little nebbish are brothers? These guys share 50% of the same alleles? How is that possible?





@Anonymous:"First off, Jon L is an idiot. As for Basketbawful, I hope you haters are starting to see what's happening. This Heat team, who none of you saw making it past the Celtics, are possibly winning it all this year. If and when this happens, they will get rid of the Big Z's and Bibby's and add even better pieces to this already unstoppable force of chemistry. I hope you losers have to have watch this for the next 6 years and this unarguably turns into the best dynasty in NBA history. Eat it up haters."

Can we start a new blog called "Postawful?" I nominate this post for the inaugural trashing. If I knew who posted it, that is. Anonymity for dumb comments or unable to figure out how to log in with a user name? You decide.




@Dick Sullivan: "If you don't understand why the Heat are nauseating, then you don't understand why anyone would hate the Yankees. Read: you're not very bright."

Yes! Bless you, sir. Can I add Duke and the Lakers to that list? The exception is for those who live near Miami. Homers can always cheer for their team, of course.





@Waingro: "You represent everything horrible about sports fandom and you are worse than Pol Pot and Hitler."

I LOLed. Best hyperbole of the fortnight award! Fan disagreements > genocide of millions FTW! o/




@Tree: warm and fuzzy but non-sexual feelings directed at you.





Basketball opinion: no chance for Dallas with Dirk having a torn finger tendon. Too bad, I would have liked to see this one go the distance with two teams at their best. Dirk was clearly playing poorly last night, and now I know why. Again, too bad. Injuries are always the wild card (remember the year that CWebb went down, it what was probably their best bid for a ring?) Alas, it happens.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Nice breakdown there Tree, and by breakdown I mean the mental kind where you write half an essay to vent. You say that people hate them because they bought their superteam, yet there were many instances in the past like this (Shaq to LA, Boston Big 3) that didn't get nearly as much blind hate as the Heat. You act like you're entitled to criticize as much as you want. Well try gunning solo against serious competition repeatedly(which all 3 Heat stars did before), if you play ball at all that is instead of enforcing basketball opinions.

Anonymous Czernobog said...
@Kazam92: Does it scoff at Caron Butler too?

Blogger Wormboy said...
No dickery in Shaq's move to LA, Big Three to Boston. No championship celebrations in July, either.

The Heat bandwagoners just don't get it: it's a collection of reasons, a perfect storm. They keep belaboring the same old points, as if mentioning ONE MORE TIME that free agents will leave will somehow alter peoples' opinions. Wake the fuck up, people: they don't leave like that. They don't arrive like that either. Dickery taken to a new level will be recognized as such, and that is why most fans hate - excuse me, "disrespect" - them so much. Heat fans just don't care, because their team will win.

Bandwagoners are just pussies who need constant validation, and the virulent dislike of the Heat challenges said validation. Hence the inarticulate and vehement denials that usually have no substance.

But don't let me stop you, dude. Why don't you mention fucking Shaq moving to fucking LA again. Gee, I haven't heard anybody make that fucking point before! Remind me how he was a dick in doing so? And which rivals did nuzzle up to? And in what way did he make himself and his team an ongoing media circus? Yeah, PLEASE, tell us about fucking Shaq again.

Anonymous bing said...
Have never been so torn. really couldn't figure out who to root for. Would putting some money on one or the other make this series more interesting?

Has Breen always been such a massive Heat homer? Or did Stern give him a script with all that "you take away the decision" stuff?

LBJ's confidence from 3 is getting scary.
Wade's confidence to get it done in the 4th, equally so.
Dirk? Yeah he had some points but he got pushed off his favourite spots a whole bunch.

Anonymous Axel F said...
That Shaq comparison was laughable. Shaq joined first round fodder headlined by Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. The Miami Heat have three clowns who decided they were going to be on the same team two years in advance.

And to David, I don't know your motivations for defending their decisions, whether you are a long time Miami Heat fan or you just like James or Wade, or if you are just a bandwagon fan. Stop trying, you can't justify it. Yes, they should martyr themselves because that's the way it's done, they owed it to their fans, and what they did was not honorable. How someone could do something like this and still be considered a fierce competitor is beyond me. It was classless and cowardly, these guys get paid way too much to go out there and do this bullshit.
All of those other examples you gave don't even relate to the issue people have with these guys. It's not the fact that they are all on the same team, it's how they got there that is the issue. Scottie and Horace Grant came in the draft. McHale was also drafted, was a non factor in Bird's first title, and Robert Parish was a malcontent that no one really believed in. Their games elevated because they were playing with great players like Jordan and Bird. Thats what great players do, they don't leave to join other superstars, they make their teammates better. What transpired last summer and what went on the two years before that was the worst thing to happen to the NBA in terms of free agency, loyalty to one's team, and honor. If they go on to win the NBA title it will be the cheapest one on record.

Blogger Ragib said...
"Ash said...
Heat will not repeat. Quote and bookmark this post.

People are going to be gunning for them twice as hard next year, and Wade looks pretty done at this point."

Why do people believe so whole heartedly they are correct when

a) what you say is not even factual. Give an actual reason how you suppose teams will become more effective against them, and be "gunning" even harder now that they are champions, because them being a bunch of supposedly arrogant greedy lazy bums who illegaly packed together to the dimishment of the entire league wasn't enough of a reason to want to stop them? I'm pretty sure most teams did in fact "gun" as hard as they could against them. And if it helps you sleep better at night, go ahead and think Wade is already washed up. As Steph G said, they are having this run with Mike Bibby, who sets an even worse record than Steph mentioned- not just a starting Finals PG, but his playoff PER is the worst of *ANY* player who ever played in the postseason more than 180 minutes. The Heat also has the worst (statistically) performing bench in the entire league, so with an off season of moves, ANY move at this point will be a big improvement.

b) It's people like you that said they couldn't win the championship because they would need three balls on the floor for them all to be effective together since they are all arrogant ball hogs, how Wade's and LeBrons skill sets were identical so it's pointless anyway, how Bosh won't be agressive enough and how the Heat don't have anything at all at the center and PG positions, they wont be able to rebound enough, their offense is disjointed and the championship caliber teams will pick that apart (See Boston, Chicago), how Wade and LeBron will fight over whose the alpha and closer, how the team have a crap record in games decided by 5pts or less, how they are cry babies because someone supposedly had a tear after a 5 game losing streak so they just don't have the macho mans mentality that is required to be a champion, how their coach is young and inexperienced, can't take advantage of both Wade and LeBron of offense, he's so bad he could be fired anytime and even if he isn't he won't be able to make adjustments and just be out-coached by real coaches, how LeBron is just not championship material and not clutch enough to lead a team to the ring.

MAYBE you should start prefacing what you say with "I hope this ", "I think this may" or "Unless they improve in this area..." instead of "THEY WILL DEFINITELY FAIL NEXT YEAR BECAUSE (insert fallacious argument)".

Blogger stephanie g said...
I'm going to steal this from the RealGM boards. What is it? Raptors fanfiction of course.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1092905

It's mostly lame, except for this:

Emma sobbed gently, Sonny's sudden departure from her heart stinging her to the core. Suddenly, she felt a gentle pressure on her shoulders...and swiveling, saw Bargnani standing there, a sympathetic and loving look gracing his countenance.

"Baby," Andrea murmured, his eyes staring off into the middle distance and his arms sliding down to her waist, "you're gonna be one rebound I won't let get away."

Anonymous kono said...
Alright, let's talk some actual basketball. Under what scenario will the Heat NOT win multiple titles in the next 5 or 6 years? They are looking scary good right now.

Is it going to take another superteam, with Dwight and CP3 perhaps?

Is it going to be the Thunder or the Bulls? They weren't too convincing in their latest series.

Celtics are too old and I don't see the Knicks getting it done.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Wormboy, it seems that you don't get it. The examples with Shaq and Boston is to show that there have been a huge shift of talent in the past that wasn't viewed as a blasphemy against the NBA as it is with the Heat, who get a lot of criticism for their signing of two big free agents. As for your statement about bandwagons, its instance with the Heat is rare since the negative attention they've been getting has turned away most indecisive fans. The real fans are mostly in Miami or people who followed the careers of Lebron and D-Wade (not so much with Bosh). So the next time you decide to rant a bunch of crap while cussing unnecessarily, check to make sure you're not PMSing and that you took your much needed dose of vagisil.

Anonymous kazam92 said...
Seriously can't believe some of these posts. Cowardly? Bosh should have instead followed in the footstdps of shareef abdur rahim and wayman tisdale because if your not loyal to your team, then you are a coward for wanting to go use your abilities to gain something tangible.

Czern - well played. Dallas was an early juggurnaut with butler. They were just solid top to bottom. Caron was the no 2 dallas may now lack. I will concede that. Plus marion/terry off the bench was fierce.

Blogger A Fly Moses said...
This is my impression of Tree: "You are not a real basketball fan like me, and you know I'm a real basketball fan because I hate the NBA."

Shut. The. Fuck. Up. There is nothing more obnoxious than people bitching about the league as a whole. And quoting 31 years of dynasties to prove that the most recent 10 are somehow much worse than the previous 21. Go away.

Blogger David said...
Axel F,

Just because you type "you can't justify it" doesn't make it true. I just did. You're allowed to disagree, but don't get all high and mighty and act like you're the final arbiter of "sports honor."

You're wrong when you say players martyring themselves is "how it done." Players have been forcing trades and leaving their teams for better situations in free agency for years. You talk as if LeBron and Bosh did some terrible new thing by leaving their franchises in free agency, but their right to do so has existed for years.

They didn't owe their fans anything. Both players gave those people 7 good years. At that point it was their right to do what they wanted. If you disagree, your problem is with free agency as a whole... not just with Bosh and LeBron.

(Side note - It's been well documented that KG told LeBron not to waste his career away the way he did after the Celtics knocked out Cleveland in 2010. So the poster boy for martyring himself would probably take issue with your viewpoint that an NBA player is obligated to stay in a bad place.)

An NBA players career is short. I think it's incredibly silly to think that player should just have to sit around and pray that a possibly incompetent GM puts him in a position to win.

All LeBron did is give himself the same chance at greatness that Magic, Bird, and Jordan had. I can't fault him for that.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
David, great post. Go Heat! I hope all of you douches watch this ass whooping tonight and it ruins your weekend. And yes, I'm one of the few that was born and raised in South Florida so I'm an actual real life Heat fan.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Have you noticed how in your adjustment for bad refereeing Dallas has an FG% of about 100%? That has to set some sort of record! Well, at least in the imaginary NBA stats books...

Anonymous Cetti said...
I, as a soccerfan in the first place, have problems with timeouts. I know they're used to stop runs, to draw up plays etc. But that happens rarely. Most of the time coaches just say meaningless stuff like "get stops", "execute", "rebound", "dont turn the ball over". I'm millions of years away from being a professional at any kind of sports, but don't players think "jeeesus, here we go again" oder actually do not listen anymore? From my point of view it seems kind of annoying hearing the same thing over and over again.

Blogger Wormboy said...
@someguywholackstheballstopostunderanormalname: "Wormboy, it seems that you don't get it. The examples with Shaq and Boston is to show that there have been a huge shift of talent in the past that wasn't viewed as a blasphemy against the NBA as it is with the Heat, who get a lot of criticism for their signing of two big free agents."

Reading comprehension fail. As I and everybody else have said scores of times now, it's not that they did it, it's HOW they did it. Do we need to repeat it for the rest of time? Then why don't you answer THAT question rather than giving us another straw man?

"As for your statement about bandwagons, its instance with the Heat is rare since the negative attention they've been getting has turned away most indecisive fans."

Horse shit. Top selling jerseys are Heat. Done.

"The real fans are mostly in Miami or people who followed the careers of Lebron and D-Wade (not so much with Bosh)."

Wait, there are Bron admirers who followed him to Miami?

"So the next time you decide to rant a bunch of crap while cussing unnecessarily, check to make sure you're not PMSing and that you took your much needed dose of vagisil."

Oh, SNAP! I weep because you have compared me to a woman! pwned!

Anonymous ChrisLTD said...
I agree with David. Lebron wasn't bound by basketball honor to stay with the Cavaliers forever. Although I do think he should have been bound by human decency to switch jobs with humility and grace.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
@Alex F. That is the most ignorantly ignorant post I have ever seen. You claim that great players are required to martyr themselves. Like an NBA executive has ever martyr'd himsel for a player? What did being a martyr ever get KG in Minnesotta? One trip to the western confrence finals. I understand the hatred around the Decison and celebration, but the choice to leave faliure for success is nothing to be ashamed of. I'd like to see i you'd want to stay on a loser in a cold city like Cleveland or Toronto for a winner in Miami. Please.

And you think Miami's welcoming celebration is over the top? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAIgWGCYGJU

Anonymous Aaron said...
Yet somehow, it does not seem like LeBron can ever achieve the greatness that Magic, Bird, Jordan, or even Kobe, Shaq, Duncan has...

Also, it looks like Wade will break down next year or the year after.

Anonymous Stockton said...
Martyr???? F$$$, this argument is funny and all, but please, take your heads out of your a$$es for a bit!!!
A martyr is a guy who works for minimmum wage for a greedy boss so he support his family!
A ball player, who is famous, does what he loves, and gets paid millions is barely a martyr, even if he forced to play for the Clippers!!!!
Yeah, some guys are "forced" to play significant part of their careers for lousy teams, but some teamas are also forced to pay a load pile of cash to guys who don't give a f##k!!!!!!

Anonymous Aaron said...
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2011/06/irked_daniel_gibson_fires_back.html

I guess this is what we are all thinking:
"Daniel Gibson took issue with some of LeBron James' comments about his former teammates in Cleveland. After Miami defeated Chicago last week to advance to the NBA Finals, James talked about his decision to join Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami. 'I wanted to team up with some guys that would never die down in the moment,' James said. 'The opportunity presented itself with this great organization and we made it happen.' Speaking on The Dugout Sports Show Podcast on Wednesday, Gibson said, 'The way it's said, you can't help but take it personal. ... I don't think great players should feel the need to say this about a team or say that about a team. I think what it all boils down to if you're great, you go play great, be great and everybody will realize you're great. And you wouldn't have to let it be known that everybody else was less great. Great players shouldn't have to do that. So I feel like it's kind of an admission. He might have needed some help. He might have needed to go somewhere and find someone who is a little greater so maybe he wouldn't die down in those moments.' "

Anonymous Tree QUINN (Real name, not anonymous) said...
I think the (mostly) nonsensical responses to my post from yesterday confirms that the biggest 'haters' are Heat fans. And, much like Heat "fans", they're completely anonymous until they have something to crow about.

@A Fly Moses: you must be an intepreter ... your interpretation of my post couldn't be more wrong if you stated that I wrote it in Chinese. Never said I was a real basketball fan and others aren't; never even intimated it. And my stat of the padst 31 years is correct - why does that bother you? When did I put it into the context of the past 10 years? If you don't think those numbers indicate an extreme competitive imbalance, you may need something to correct your mental imbalance.

Keep bringing it anonymous Heat fans that have never posted here until your team made the finals. I can and will accpet criticism from the likes of kazam92 - he's logical, been here all year and dealing with our shit, and is obviously a real Heat fan and not a fair weather bandwaggoner like the rest of you. You don't appreciate some inconvenient truths about your team, that just makes you non-fan fans as unlikable as your team. Congrats!

Bawful/ET - the next post better be about how the Heat are the best thing that ever happened to the NBA, or there might be an anonymous mutiny.

Anonymous Karc said...
I think the lockout will be a well-deserved timeout for all involved...

Anonymous Karc said...
I think the lockout will be a well-deserved timeout for all involved...

Blogger Joseph said...
@Anonymous "And you think Miami's welcoming celebration is over the top? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAIgWGCYGJU"

Real Madrid is the most popular sports team on the earth with registered fans totaling over 450 million. Their stadium seats 65,000+ and is typically full.

The Miami Heat are lucky if they can average 10,000+ through the regular season and I'd have to bet that Miami fans total fewer than 450 Million. Probably fewer than 45 million for that matter, and if we're talking pre-bandwagon figures, I'd put it closer to 4.5M.

By that logic, I'd say Real Madrid has the right to celebrate 10 to 100 times harder than Miami.

Also, these huge celebrations are very common amongst European football clubs when even half-way decent players are brought in.

Blogger TransINSANO said...
It's funny seeing Heat apologists still trying to compare this to other situations when even the Heat themselves acknowledge what they did as an unparalleled experiment (which you should embrace as their fans rather than deny). It's funnier seeing you rationalize maybe the two best players in the league coming together and talking about winning over 7 championships as not rigging the deck.

Again, this is like nothing we've ever seen before; we're talking 2 of the top 5 best players in the league and 3 of the top 5 picks in one of the most loaded drafts ever; the situational comparison I came up with was if Jordan, Barkley, and Olajuwon teamed up in 1990. I hope that puts it in better relative perspective.

For those saying they just wanted to be able to win, it's not like their weren't reasonable alternatives to throwing their lots together, or cHeating as it shall now be known. I thought Wade or LeBron could have gone to Chicago and led them to titles as the man, but now we'll never know because they already reckoned they weren't up to the challenge.

When I think of how hard it was for Larry Legend to scrape his 3 rings together over a decade, or MJ's dominating will during two three-peats, it disturbs me to hear people trivialize it compared to what the cHeat are doing. Magic and Larry had Hall of Famers on their teams, but they all earned that status playing AGAINST each other and other similarly loaded squads. Hall of Famers aren't created equally, some earn that status as supporting players, but this is like if you put Bird and Magic themselves on the same team. They would have won twice as much, but it would have half the meaning if they just couldn't lose. That's the point of competition, and what the cHeat have circumvented.

You can argue it was smart and unselfish, but one can also argue they took the path of least resistance and sold their competitive souls for easy rings. Think of Bosh preening, screaming, and flexing at their pre-season championship rally and tell me which seems more right. Clearly they wanted to eliminate the competition, literally and figuratively, and it looks like they've done it. As they cruise to the title in likely another short series, the "cHeat" perception will only be further validated.

Blogger Dr. J said...
"David said...

Tree,

RE - "Buying championships" and "cowardice."

I'll say the same thing to you on that subject that I've been saying since the decision happened -

You don't win in the NBA unless you have multiple hall of famers or multiple all stars on your team.

The notion that other stars like Jordan "did it themselves" is a fallacy.

Magic had Kareem and Worthy (three hall of famers).

MJ had Pippen and later Rodman (three hall of famers).

Bird had McHale and Parish (three hall of famers.

I could go on.

My point is that LeBron and Bosh didn't have that kind of help, and they weren't going to get that kind of help unless they left their home teams in free agency to join with other great players.

They had a choice - They could martyr themselves the way KG did, wasting their primes with teams that would never win due to a lack of a second hall of fame type player...... Or they could do what their team's general managers failed to do for 7 years and get the help themselves.

I don't see how you can fault them for deciding to take matters into their own hands after waiting 7 years for help that never arrived.
"

The 2004 Pistons, my favorite team ever, beat a team of 5 hall of famers. A good team is a good team. Period. The had great chemistry. Oh, and by the way, the 2004 Pistons bench was pretty good too. This was a team that had stayed as one unit for 3-4 years. So don't give me that crap.

JM

Anonymous Abu Saud said...
Had Lebron simply announced via a normal press conference that he was going to Miami, that's fine, no one would have faulted him except Cavs fans. But he made a spectacle the like of which no one has ever seen! How could a player (no matter how talented) get this kind of attention when he has not won a single ring?

When the Celtics 3 joined up, there wasn't a pre-season celebration, KG didn't brag about winning 8 championships, there was none of that.

The Miami Heat: The Los Galacticos of basketball.

Blogger Lord Kerrance said...
@ChrisLTD: I kind of agree with you, although his vow to stay in Cleveland until they had a championship could come up in the argument. I like to think of that as yet ANOTHER case of Bron saying what he thinks will put him in the best light without thinking about it.

I think it all comes down to this: The Heat are the most talented team in the NBA right now. That having been said, LeBron is a giant douchebag for so many reasons (LeDecision, Crab Dribble Gate, Karma tweets), and Bosh is a douchbaglet (no need to dive for loose balls, I might get hurt and be unable to feed my daughter and crazy ex-girlfriend on my multi-million dollar salary).

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Why are people comparing Wade/LeBron/Bosh to Magic/Worthy/Kareem, Jordan/Pippen/Rodman, Bird/McHale/Parish? It wasn't too long ago that people were saying LeBron couldn't close games, would never win a championship. And before this season, Chris Bosh would never have been in the same sentence as those HOF names. Why are people making out the Heat are better than they actually are, just so they can knock them?

Anonymous DJ Leon Smith said...
I love how people say Jordan had three HOFers. He won his first title with zero all-star teammates.

Oh and Pippen's rookie year stats are almost identical to JJ Hickson's second year stats. Even then, guys like Bird and Magic had to beat teams with multiple all-stars to get rings, unlike the Heat needing to beat the Bulls and Mavs (possibly) to win.

And are we forgetting LeBron's pre-season quote that he joined the Heat so he'd have less pressure on his shoulders? If you're a Heat fan be happy you're winning, but not make excuses for your players. As it is, all you're doing right now is the unthinkable - making Laker fans look tolerable.

Blogger David said...
Dr. J,

The 2004 pistons are an anomaly. They are the one team over the last 30 years to win an NBA title that didn't have a clear cut hall of famer on the roster. Billups is the closest thing to a hall of fame player they had.

But even those pistons had three guys who made multiple all star teams (sheed, rip, billups). That's more than you can say for the raptors and cavs teams over the last 7 years.

So my point remains. You don't win NBA titles unless you have, at the very least, multiple all stars - and in almost every case you need two or more hall of famers to win.

Blogger Caleb Smith said...
@TransINSANO. So what you are saying is that it's okay to play with good players, just make sure they aren't TOO good?

I find that ridiculous.

People have such contradictory expectations for players. Don't be selfish, you don't have to be the man, do what is best for your team and put winning above else. Otherwise you are just a selfish ballhog who cares only about stats.

But also, forget all that and make sure you ARE "the man," otherwise you will ruin your legacy and be a cheat who isn't living up to the macho ideal of former legends.

To me, the logical extension of this argument is that Jordan should have refused to play with Pippin and Rodman. Even if you don't think the talent levels are equivocal, and that Lebron/Wade/Bosh is more akin to Jordan/Barkley/Olajuwon (er, which one is Bosh?) teaming up, that Bulls team was just as dominant as this Heat team is likely to be. No one was beating that Bulls squad. Is that 72-10 record tainted because the talent level was too high?

And I do understand the "its not the WHAT, its the HOW" argument. The how was certainly lame. Yet the people who say this seem to be just as pissed off about the "what" part of the equation.

To reiterate what I've said before, I can completely understand hating the Heat for their arrogance and for being "Hollywood as hell." I do not understand hating the Heat simply for existing in their current form. Sure, they are going to be a great team for years and may very well dominate the league. Yep, just like the Bulls did in the 90's and just like the Celtics did in the 60's. So WHAT? And let's be real, their domination is NOT a foregone conclusion. But if it does happen? Again, so what? I can't say I like it, but its hardly going to be some black mark on the league. I'm not a fan of the Heat, I'm a Hornets fan. Ultimately I don't really care about the Heat, though I do think being able to watch Lebron, Wade and Bosh play together is fun - even if they are dicks. But I think their detractors are mostly being irrational.

Anonymous Stevester said...
Jumping in here late, but the discussion has gotten so far off the rails that I feel like some basic facts need to be corrected.

The example of the Pistons is actually a lot more complex than either David or Dr. J is making out. 4 of those guys actually became all stars (Rip and Chauncey were actually not all stars until 05/06, but both Wallaces were 2-time all stars in 2004), along with another future all-star (Okur) as a bit contributor, weigh that however you want, but they were a pretty stacked team.

As far as DJ Leon's Pippen comparison, who cares what his rookie stats were? The Bulls didn't win a title till his 4th year, when he made a huge leap and had already been an all star once. Jordan and rookie Pippen (along with rookie Horace) did about as well as Lebron and the Crabs 'perennial playoff appearances/flameouts, not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

As a non-Heat/Mavs/Bulls fan, I completely understand rooting against the Heatles given their massive acts of douchebaggery, but can we at least just drop the meme that they're an affront to basketball?

Yeah, they're two HOFers and an all star, the last two rounds they beat a team with 4 all stars this year, and the MVP along with another repeat all star. As multiple people have pointed out, it's not like this kind of talent distribution is completely unheard of in NBA history, even if how it happened is fairly unprecedented.

Blogger Caleb Smith said...
"I completely understand rooting against the Heatles given their massive acts of douchebaggery, but can we at least just drop the meme that they're an affront to basketball?"

Exactly what I've been trying to say, just much more concisely. Thanks.

Blogger TransINSANO said...
Why are people making out the Heat are better than they actually are, just so they can knock them?

What's more interesting is that the esteem you hold the team in is apparently inverse to what you think their talent level is. Heat Haters point out that the 2 best players in the league teamed up with a top big, Heat band-wagoners would have you believe they're just a typical collection of all-stars. The fallacy has gotten to the point we're comparing the talents of Dwyane Wade and LeBron James to the likes of the Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton. Apparently the brouhaha over these all-stars cruising to the championship was over nothing. That rally at the start of the year? They were just excited about the new season. Nothing to see here! I mean, it should be the other way around with Heat fans saying how awesome this team is, right? Instead, they're trying to spin/downplay that to protect their new stars' legacies, which will no doubt be judged in part for having chosen to play together.

And are we forgetting LeBron's pre-season quote that he joined the Heat so he'd have less pressure on his shoulders? If you're a Heat fan be happy you're winning, but not make excuses for your players. As it is, all you're doing right now is the unthinkable - making Laker fans look tolerable.

Yeah, suddenly everyone's forgetting that the Heat themselves thought this was a HUGE dynasty making deal in the first place. They certainly weren't grimly looking forward to the challenge; they were already counting the rings. BTW, imagine if these guys had somehow done this on the Lakers instead. I think that would have put it in better perspective.

@TransINSANO. So what you are saying is that it's okay to play with good players, just make sure they aren't TOO good?

No, I'm saying it the other way around, it's a little weird when you're making sure they're TOO good. It can't be denied, for LeBron in particular, there was a kind of desperation, relief, and even euphoria surrounding this beyond just, "Oh, I've finally got a chance to compete with better players." To quote, "Not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven..." This isn't Heat haters casting unfair or false aspirations on them, this was how THEY envisioned this. It's fine if you don't have a problem with that, it's certainly awesome from a certain points of view, but the opposite is true from others.

Even if you don't think the talent levels are equivocal, and that Lebron/Wade/Bosh is more akin to Jordan/Barkley/Olajuwon (er, which one is Bosh?) teaming up

Haha, yeah, Bosh is nobody. I was comparing the scope of the situations and how it plays into the "cHeat" perception; top 5 in a the top draft, all the top free agents, etc. Remember, Bosh was still considered a max "franchise" guy on the market at the time, and all three top franchise guys went to the same team. Now Heat apologists that were rightfully going nuts over this are saying, "Geez, what's the big deal, they're just all-stars?" Yeesh, talk about managing perceptions.

Blogger TransINSANO said...
Your HTML cannot be accepted: Must be at most 4,096 characters

Wow, I went over the character limit. I'm a loser. Anyway, I was saying...


that Bulls team was just as dominant as this Heat team is likely to be. No one was beating that Bulls squad. Is that 72-10 record tainted because the talent level was too high?

Look at that roster again, it's great, but it was THAT dominate mainly because of Jordan. There's a chicken and the egg theory to all of this, e.g. because that '96 team won 72, it means the roster was better than any other when that's not necessarily the case. Some even argue against them being the GOAT team just because the 80's Lakers and Celtics were more loaded rosters, multiple HoF's off the bench. The 90's Bulls were way more top heavy in talent than those 80's squads, which is why/how Jordan took being THE MAN to another level, which screwed up the way we evaluate player legacies for everyone since (it wasn't just how much you won, but how). Maybe the cHeat experiment will recalibrate things... or not.

Yeah, they're two HOFers and an all star, the last two rounds they beat a team with 4 all stars this year, and the MVP along with another repeat all star. As multiple people have pointed out, it's not like this kind of talent distribution is completely unheard of in NBA history, even if how it happened is fairly unprecedented.

I disagree, as I said before, not all Hall of Famers and All-Stars are created equal. These are the two best players in the league teaming up. The only arguably comparable pairs I can think of are Baylor/West and Shaq/Kobe, and they didn't conspire to do it to "take the pressure off." At least you're acknowledging it's unprecedented, and there's a lot that goes into that from a historical prospective; how we view the team, and how we view the individuals on it, just like how Kobe and Shaq's rings still get nit-picked today (though not so much Magic and Kareem's, again, pre-MJ). Bottom line though is that if they win, and win big, history will be kind and mostly forgive them their perceived transgressions.

"I completely understand rooting against the Heatles given their massive acts of douchebaggery, but can we at least just drop the meme that they're an affront to basketball?"

Exactly what I've been trying to say, just much more concisely. Thanks.


Hey killjoys, the site's called Basketbawful, not Basketbalright.

Anonymous spinetingler said...
Dirk.

Anonymous Axel F said...
David you just don't get it. If you think there is nothing wrong with what happened you are either completely oblivious or simply a douchebag. Yes I believe a player should martyr themselves but that isn't even the damn point here. You are taking the situation and simplifying it down to them just leaving their teams via free agency. That's not what happened, you know that's not how it went down, so stop trying to downplay it. If you think there was absolutely nothing wrong with teasing other teams for TWO WHOLE YEARS and also trying to pretend like staying with your team is your intention, and then announcing it on live television, i'm sorry but you are a fucking asshole. If you think it was classy in any way I have no words for you. I would also love to hear about the countless times in NBA history when a trio of stars in their prime, two of them being mortal locks for the hall of fame, decided to join forces and deceive the public about it for any amount of time. I'll be here waiting as you fruitlessly search for such a situation until the end of time, because no such event has ever occurred.

Blogger Caleb Smith said...
Hey killjoys, the site's called Basketbawful, not Basketbalright

Yeah, fair point... but I actually have no issue with the way the Heat have been covered on the site. This is a humor site, and I've enjoyed it along with everything else. I was trying to address perceptions in general, not the satire here on the site.

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