Sad magic bench
This sad bench photo gets bonus points for the inclusion of Patrick Chewing.

The Orlando Magic: This video -- which you've probably already seen at least a half dozen times -- pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Game 3 of the Celtics-Magic series:


Kevin Garnett called that a "pure, I-want-it-more-than-you type of play." Rondo said: "I wanted to make a play on the ball. He had the angle on me so I decide to dive for it." Doc Rivers added: "I didn't think he could get to it. I don't think Jason Williams thought he could get to it, honestly. I don't know how he got it."

Was that play, technically speaking, a travel? Maybe. But the call (or non-call) went the way of the player who just flat out wanted it more...just like the game went to the team that wanted it more. Here's another video that kind of proves that out:


And another:


And another:


The way the Celtics sleep-walked through the regular season was so convincing that even after they won Games 1 and 2 in Orlando, there were people who pointed to the C's so-so play in Boston as a possible glimmer of hope for Orlando. Conventional thinking was that if the Magic showed up with a sense of urgency, if they outhustled and outworked the Celtics, they could win Game 3 and make this a series.

Instead, the Magic recreated this immortal scene from the first Austin Powers movie:


Orlando was outrebounded 43-36, outscored in the paint 43-22, and they gave up 19 points on 17 turnovers. They shot only 36 percent from the field and scored only 71 points. They lost by 23 after trailing by as many as 32.

Mind you, coming into this series, the Magic were 8-0 in the playoffs and averaging 101 PPG while shooting almost 50 percent from the field and nearly 40 from downtown. Against the Boston Stranglers, they're scoring 83.7 PPG and shooting 39 and 28 percent, respectively. As Zach Harper of Cowbell Kingdom pointed out: "Their offensive rating is down to 95 points per 100 possessions. For reference, the 12-70 Nets were last in the NBA with 100.6 points per 100 possessions." And the Celts did pretty much whatever they wanted on the other end of the court. It's a complete offensive/defensive apocalypse for Orlando. Reminder: During the regular season, the Magic were ranked 4th in Offensive Rating and 3rd in Defensive rating.

But forget the numbers for a second. Despite what the critics are saying, the Magic wanted it. There was effort being exerted. The Celtics just wanted it more...which is why you saw Rajon Rondo challenging Orlando's big men for rebounds and Big Baby diving out of bounds for loose balls. And their defense has been like a vise clamped on the Magic's proverbial balls. The C's challenge everything...every shot, every pass, every rebound. They pound on people. What we interpreted as a choke by LeBron and a failure by his teammates was really just a case of their will being broken by a superior defensive force. And we're seeing that happen again.

Who knows. Maybe the Magic have one more big effort left in them. But man...

Said Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy: "I just didn't think we stayed with the fight very well. I thought there were several hustle plays like [Rondo's] in the first half that all went their way. I thought they worked harder than we did. I thought they outcompeted us."

sad van gundy

But...but...the Magic were the second-best regular season team in the league. How could they have been handled so easily? Humiliated so completely?

Said Van Gundy: "What's most disappointing to me was that I didn't have them ready to compete. It starts with me, it's my job, I'm the coach, and I'm not happy about what I did tonight -- my plan, my adjustments, my everything."

sad van gundy

Wait...it's your fault your team kind of gave up?

More SVG: "I don't think we stayed with the fight very well, and we went sideways mentally. And there were a lot of guys in that room that have built this team to where it is, a contender that has gained respect, and that game tonight -- not just the score , but the way it went -- it's disappointing because that's not who we are and what we've worked to become. And between now and Monday, there needs to be a lot of soul searching and pulling together, because the normal reaction is to try to escape, and to try to escape blame, and it takes mentally mature people to bounce back and show who we are. But if we don't have that kind of toughness, we shouldn't be here anyway."

sad van gundy

Dwight Howard: His final line: 39 minutes, 7 points, 7 rebounds, 3-for-10 shooting, 1-for-4 from the line, 1 assist, 1 steal, 3 blocked shots, 1 turnover. Glen "Big Baby" Davis' final line: 27 minutes, 17 points, 6 rebounds, 5-for-9 shooting, 7-for-9 from the line, 1 blocked shot, zero turnovers. 'Nuff said?

No, not quite. All those decisive moves and that successful hook shot Dwight unveiled in Game 2 went the way of Jimmy Hoffa. The Celtics were once again able to get away with single coverage on Howard...even when Big Baby was guarding him. Of course, Boston's cause has been helped by the fact that the refs are letting all sorts of physical play go in this series, which is the only conceivable reason Baby could have roughed up Howard for most of his 27 minutes of PT without registering a single personal foul...

...but still.

Rashard Lewis: The 118 Million Dollar Man has been so bawful in this series that his contract just climbed to the number two spot in Stan Van Gundy's list of things he'll go back and change when he finishes his time machine, right after "tell Matt Barnes not to push opposing players into me." In Game 3, he finished with 4 points (2-for-8, 0-for-4 from beyond the arc), 4 boards, 4 turnovers and 5 fouls in 28 minutes. That pushes his series totals to 15 points, 15 rebounds, 6 assists, 7 turnovers and 10 fouls in about 111 minutes of lacktion. As far as shooting goes, Lewis is 6-for-24 from the field and 1-for-13 from three-point range.

All I know is that people in the greater Orlando area are scrambling around in a mad search for the shallow grave of Rashard Lewis. Oh, and I loved what Sir Charles had to say: "Hey, Rashard, learn how to dribble over the summer."

Vince Carter: 15 points, 5-for-12, 1-for-5 on threes. You're telling me this guy was an upgrade from Hedo Turkoglu? Oh, and remember Game 1, when Vince was all about attacking the rim? Yeah, the Celtics have done a pretty good job of intimidating him out of that mindset. Even when he makes a strong move to the hoop, as soon as a Boston defender rotates to challenge him, Vag just chucks the ball at the rim and ducks his head.

Jameer Nelson: Remember how on-fire this guy was in Rounds 1 and 2? In Game 3, he went 5-for-14 from the field and a dismal 3-for-9 from downtown. Forget about why on earth Nelson would ever attempt that many threes and focus on the fact that he finished with 1 assist in 32 minutes. That's right...1...versus 4 turnovers. Not exactly the floor game you want from your starting point guard. Not surprisingly, the Magic finished with only 10 assists.

Matt Barnes: Mr. Barnes took out his own coach, using KG as the weapon:


Kevin Garnett: As bad as Howard played, this was still pretty impressive:


Jedi Jackson
Unfortunately for Phil, Jedi mind tricks don't work on Amar'e.

The Los Angeles Lakers: With every mismatch seemingly in their favor, with last year's Finals MVP having himself a game (36 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists) and Pau Gasol having another near perfect game (23 points, 11-for-14, 9 rebounds), you'd think the Lakers would be getting their brooms out of the closet. And they probably would be, too, if they could play some defense.

The Suns scored 118 points. They were aggressive enough to earn 42 free throw attempts. And Amar''''''e Stoudemre -- who was crucified here and pretty much everywhere else after Game 2 -- had a "lucky" game, tying his career playoff high with 42 points on 14-for-22 from the field and 14-for-18 from the line. (Btw, one of STATUE's FT misses came after a stat-cursing graphic alerted viewers to the fact that the Suns had hit 21 straight freebies). Heck, Stoudemire even had 11 boards...8 defensive!

After all the grinning and smirking Gasol did in Game 2, it was really sweet to watch Amar''''''e so relentlessly abuse him last night. It'll be a wonder of human psychology if Pau doesn't try to enroll in witness protection this morning.

I could go on about L.A.'s defensive ineptitude, or how they got rattled by the Suns' zone and were seduced into chucking up all sorts of crappy treys, but how about I just cut-and-past what Basketbawful reader Karc had to say about this game:

Yeah, about that "4th" ranked defense for the Lakers, gave up another 118 points tonight to the Suns and lost. 24th ranked three-point shooting, so why not take 32 threes and only hit 9. There was a sequence late in the game where they shot four bricked threes in a row, I think they were only down by 4 at that point. Sure enough, Suns go up 10, ball game over.

Of course, there was the obligatory "stat curse" when it was mentioned that the Lakers are unbeaten in the playoffs when Gasol and Byrant score 20 each. Not any more.

One of the interesting arguments I hear from people who defend the Lakers is that they play smart basketball. Watched that fourth quarter. Five turnovers, Odom fouling out, Lakers getting sucked into bad jumpers from a zone defense of guys six inches shorter than them. Not proclaiming to be an expert at basketball, but going into the paint seemed to be working.

Can we just hand the title to Boston at this point? Seriously, who's going to beat them? Orlando's deadly (more like suicidal) three-point shooting? The Lakers' stupidity to rely on their 24th-ranked three-point shooting when they've got a guy in there who's virtually unstoppable in the post (Gasol went 11-14, could have been 19-23 and a win if they take out the gun-slinging). Suns don't have a chance against a team that actually plays some defense.

And, LA fans (including the ones in Phoenix), quit this whole "We want Boston" chant. First, you haven't beaten the Suns yet. BTW, WOTN goes to Andrew Bynum for this nugget, then stinking out the joint with a field goal, two rebounds, and four fouls in under eight minutes.

This goes back to my whole "Lakers are not that smart" position. Paul Pierce did a similar thing the other day after the road win in Orlando (basically tweeting that the series was over, and it is), and Doc Rivers immediately got on his case for it, saying "I wish he hadn't said that." Ray Allen chipped in something about humility. Pierce redeems himself the next game in a team effort to crush the Magic. Where was Fisher to take the "humble" stance? Or Phil Jackson with something about staying in the zone? Though he gets a slight pass because of the AWESOME shot at Craig Sager's suit, calling him the Good Humor Ice Cream Man. Lakers may win the series, but you'll probably be chanting "No more Boston" after they bitchslap the Lakers in 5.
Andrew Bynum: Karc gave you his stat line...and it wasn't good. And now Phil Jackson is considering benching the kid.

Said Phil: "I'll talk to him to see what his suggestion is about it and how he feels about it. I think he was ineffective. There were some things that got by him. He had one nice move in the post. Defensively I thought he was a little bit late."

Added Bynum: "I was ineffective, that's obvious."

The benches: Lamar Odom might have been the biggest victim of the Phoenix zone, and he finished with 10 points on 4-for-14 shooting and only 6 rebounds before fouling out. The rest of the Lakers reserves managed only 8 points on 3-for-10 shooting.

As for the Suns' bench, those dudes went 3-for-21 from the field, with Channing Frye (0-for-7, 0-for-5 on threes) and Leandro Barbosa (0-for-4, 0-for-3 from distance) leading the Brick Parade. Man, if Frye could just hit a freakin' shot...speaking of which...

Channing Frye: For the series, Frye is shooting 1-for-20 from the field, 1-for-14 on threes, and has missed 17 straight shots. His hero? Rashard Lewis, apparently.

Robin Lopez: Lopez actually had a really strong game, hitting some hook shots and providing actual, honest-to-goodness interior toughness for the "spongy on the outside, cream filling on the inside" Suns. But please don't try to tell me thsi happened on accident:


Steve Nash's face: Holy Christ, is Steve's face going to survive the playoffs? The man wasn't exactly handsome when the postseason started. Now he looks like someone who's spent the last five years living on a strict diet of Steven Segal face punches. President Obama is this close to declaring Nash's mug a national disaster site...and he probably would have done it already if Nash wasn't Canadian.


After Nash bent his busted nose back into place on live TV during the game, Basketbawful reader zyth said: "So, um, when do we fawn over Bron's or Kobe's toughness next? It's just ridiculous how little love Nash gets around the world."

This is a fact: Nash does not get nearly enough credit for his toughness. Here's a dude who plays through a chronic back ailment that affects him every day and has for his entire career. But all we ever hear about is Kobe's finger or LeBron's elbow. I actually read an article in the Chicago Tribune this weekend that said (with complete seriousness) that the Crabs would have swept the Celtics if LeBron's elbow would have been 100 percent. And if the Lakers end up losing, I have a funny feeling we'll suddenly find out something was "wrong" with Mamba. Meanwhile, as awesome as he is, nobody ever says, "Man, imagine how good Nash would be if he didn't suffer from spondylolisthesis.

As always, I'm just sayin'.

Amar''''''e Stoudemire: "You can never question my determination, my focus, my dedication. That's one of the reasons I've persevered through injuries and continue to try to improve every summer. My dedication to the game is at an all-time high."

Lamar Odom, unintentionally dirty quote machine: "He got to the hole and was forceful."

Mike Brown: Fired. We all saw that one coming, right? Another Coach of the Year casualty. Did you know, four of the past five CotYs (Brown, Byron Scott, Sam Mitchell and Avery Johnson) have been fired, and the oen before Johnson (Mike D'Antoni) was, shall we say, encouraged to explore other options. If I was Scott Brooks, I would be getting a little twitchy.

Weekend lacktion report: I don't like to criticize, but I think Chris should have included Rashard Lewis in his lacktion report...

Magic-Celtics: Michael Finley found a piece of masonry at the Gaaahden and paired it with a foul in 8:23 for a celebratory +2 suck differential!

Meanwhile, Shelden Williams parked in the lacktion ledger tonight by countering a board in 4:45 with a foul and giveaway for a 2:1 Voskuhl.

Lakers-Suns: Josh Powell powered up via portobello in just 55 seconds for a Mario.

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51 Comments:
That Tribune article is just an encrypted message to LeBron. When you decode it, it says "If you think they pander to you in Cleveland, you ain't seen nothin' yet".

And yeah, Rashard, total 9:8 Voskuhl.

Blogger Sammy P. said...
"And they probably would be, too, if they could play some defense." - in reference to the Suns/Lakers game.

I think it is reasonable for the Lakers to give away just over 100 points a game to the leagues highest scoring team (not just this season, but for the past three.) I think bench production is what helped them win in Game 2 and that is what they needed more of in Game 3.

Blogger Onandonymous said...
Spondylolisthesis?? Isn't that the thing where part of your vertebrae breaks off and causes you intense pain? I knew I guy who couldn't even jog when he had that. Damn. Much credit.
I think white people (myself included) are afraid of having an unconscious bias and appreciating Nash for his skin color instead of his basketball skills. But yeah, Nash deserves some media love.

Blogger Cortez said...
"Can we just hand the title to Boston at this point?"

Let's not get to ahead of ourselves. Nothing (basketball related...that I'm not involved in) would please me more than that 18th banner but let be honest.

The Craboliers were/are suspect from the beginning while being coached by a doorknob.

The Magicians are led by Pumaman(!) and their "second" best player is one of two guys...

1) A 6'10" jumpshooter with a goddamned pharaoh beard.

2) Vince Carter (enough said)

"Was that play, technically speaking, a travel?"

You can standup after diving for a ball in the NBA but not in College or high school

Blogger Wild Yams said...
I was saying it after Games 1 and 2, and it's still incredibly obvious, but there is no way LA's gonna be able to beat Boston playing the horrid defense they have been in this series. Phoenix won last night because Amar'e went nuts and because, out of desperation, the Suns went to a zone defense and LA, not being too bright, failed to adjust to it. I'm guessing Phil Jackson will tell his team how to beat a zone before Game 4 (hint: don't take 32 threes), and once Phoenix has no way to stop LA again they'll go back to being outscored and will lose in five. But that is not going to fix the way the wheels have suddenly fallen off the Laker defense. If LA can't get their defensive intensity back, and fast, Boston definitely will be hanging banner #18 in a few weeks.

Anonymous Hellshocked said...
Nash doesn't get enough credit for his toughness, very true, and he also doesn't get much if any credit for his clutchness either. I don't think I've heard anyone say he is one of the most clutch players in the league, but in my eyes he totally is. As a Spurs fan I can't count how many ice cold threes he has hit to bring a game into overtime, stop a run or simply break an opponent's will. For Dallas fans it must be incomparably worse. Both his toughness and clutchness came into play when the Spurs were eliminated in the previous series. If Lebron had made those plays with one eye in such a close game he would have been canonized before he left the court.

I don't think Scott Brooks has anything to worry about. Unlike those guys, he can actually coach and coach well. When he is let go, as all coaches not named Jerry Sloan eventually are, he will have plenty of teams looking to sign him.

Anonymous Stockton said...
I don't see the refs letting Perkins and Baby rough up the Laker's bigs, not in LA at least. That said, at this point, it seems the greens want it more than anyone else. Maybe they're on a mission to prove a certain basketball blogger he was fu##ing wrong (KG's words) about the Celtics.

Blogger BadDave said...
I'm gavomiting as I say this, but I also am applying the brakes to the Celtic's victory lap. The Lakers and Asshat Jackson have a nasty tendency to rise to their opposition.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
I'm gavomiting as I say this, but I also am applying the brakes to the Celtic's victory lap.

I should probably point out, I'm certainly in no way handing Boston the title. Uh uh, no how.

Blogger Dooj said...
When did Fisher become such a punk? He clearly tried to body check Lopez and then took offense over a graze... I used to respect the guy (child needing care and all) but since he went back to the Lakers all he does is try and punk other players. Of course, since he's a guard and not 7 feet tall, he has to pick on guys bigger than him. If KG did what Fisher did right there, he'd be crucified by everyone (rightly so, imo).

Where's the "leadership" that Fisher brings to the Lakers?

Anonymous UpA said...
The whole Mickey Mouse Crew (a.k.a. the 2010 NBA Finals Official Punching Bag From Orlando) were bawful and I can say that these Celt's are playing great ball.

As a Lakers fan (sign for a bad BB comment ahead), I'm afraid that these C's are showing the kind of intensity LA should be displaying, you can see the hunger for success in every play they make, no matter who gets the shot, they are so confident in their skills that "The original MM crew" should be worrying, specially Bynum, who should start playing some good BB instead of letting his big mouth go out full of non-sense.

And... no WoTN for the officiating on the C's game? Orlando was getting foul calls so easily I thought they cut cupons on the yellow pages for them... I know home sided O in the playoffs is expected but really, the C's doesn't need that.

And... could someone pls say 'Sheed that he was supposed to be dead? I think he came out from Zombie Land to hunt us all back for our well deserved complains about him! Run for your life!

Blogger Basketbawful said...
I don't see the refs letting Perkins and Baby rough up the Laker's bigs, not in LA at least.

That's the thing, right? I think that, assuming Boston and L.A. make the Finals, the series will come down to how physical the officials allow the teams to be. One would assume that if the refs put their whistles away, that would benefit the Celtics. If they call it tight, it'll benefit the Lakers.

Anonymous UpA said...
Wow Dooj, so I guess that if a 7 footer makes a body check on you you'll just excuse to the guy for being on his way right?

Fisher's reaction was completely deserved, at the original body-check he didn't complained, he just got the hit and moved on, but Lopez went all on purpose to hit D's head with his elbow, he changed his direction to do so it's so obvious that if that happens on your local pick up game a well deserved punch will land at the big fella. No point on trying to call D a punk, which he has never been.

Blogger chris said...
So Bawful, want me to add Rashard Lewis to the Voskuhl category? :D

CAPTCHA: "decied," i.e. "Chris is trying to decied how much lack Mr. Lewis has contributed to the ECF so far."

Blogger Dooj said...
@ UpA

Fisher initiated the first body check. It's also not the first time he's done something like that. He tried to punk Westbrook in the first round as well.

Blogger Dylan Murphy said...
As long as your feet don't move, it doesn't matter. That's why that Rondo play was legal. You have to love Jason Williams giving the "I'm just here to collect a paycheck" effort.

Blogger Ash said...
The Suns have the best offense in the league by miles and miles. Nobody even comes close.

So let's not bury the Lakers' defense just yet.

Now, as for Andrew Bynum... whack away!

Edit, captia: rhawking, as in The Pumaman is playing about as well as Stephen rhawking would.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
So Bawful, want me to add Rashard Lewis to the Voskuhl category? :D

Affirmative.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
I kinda felt like punching Amar''''''e's face during his post-game interview. Pretty much every word he said was bogus.

Blogger geremy said...
a post above mentioned something to the point of "depends on how the officials call it" regarding the potential finals matchup of boston and LA it got me thinking...

i miss old PLAYOFF basketball. physically aggressive playoff basketball. as a suns fan i have slightly benefited from this, but it still would prefer it.

dwight, considered to be the most dominate physical force in the league wouldn't be able to hang with centers of old. dwight holds the top spot today, but place him on a list of centers from 1994 and see that he ranks somewhere under dikembe mutumbo and above mark west!

even amar'''''''e would be crushed by charles, karl, or....if anyone can imagine it.... charles oakley. oakley would make STAT cry by the end of a playoff series. same could be said for kevin mchale, bill laimbeer or dennis rodman.

anyhow, sorry to sidetrack the discussion. i just watch playoff basketball now and i get sad is all.

Ray Allen dunked on you? Ray Allen? Maybe he really is Our Savior in shorts. By the way something, Rondo didn't travel, he never established a pivot foot.

VC isn't even semi-competent. I guess Hedo was the real Vadinho to Howard's Pyoomaman (Vaginho, perhaps?).

Nash reminds of another MST3K trope: Why do you hate my face so much? And isn't spondylolisthesis the medical equivalent of having a pole up your ass?

Segueing smooth from an ass reference, I love how Jackson always seems to be walking sideways from his team in his comments after losses. Maybe he goes into a dissociative fugue when he gets abused. Let's call it "lost in the J-hole."

Blogger chris said...
Bawful: So here's what we got...

For Game 3, Rashard Lewis negated two field goals and four boards (and two blocks!) in 27:44 with FIVE fouls and four giveaways for a 9:8 Voskuhl!

Blogger BadDave said...
Chris - a suggestion for next year. Make the "Flop Score" chart - kind of like a box score but it just has Marios, Voskuhls, etc.

Every legitimate site has to have graphics. :)

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Have you not seen that Delonte West was banging Lebrons' Mom, or are you choosing not to comment on it?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/calvin-murphy-lebron-jame_n_583135.html

Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Of course, since he's a guard and not 7 feet tall, he has to pick on guys bigger than him."

... As opposed to the far-superior 'picking' on guys smaller than him?

Blogger chris said...
AnacondaHL: The way he said his lines, it honestly felt like Statue was directly responding to your post.

Which I think is glorious.

Blogger chris said...
BadDave: Lacktion in TABLE FORM. Yes. I am 100% down for THAT.

At season's end, Dan B. and I really need to break down the data in my lacktion spreadsheet and determine who qualifies for the end-of-year All-Lacktion squads...

Blogger -Josh said...
About Nash:

So I had a friend I spent about six weeks with, every day. Every few days he would lay on his bed for a half an hour in the morning for no apparent reason. He wasn't tired, he just lay there with his eyes clothes. One day I finally ask him why.

"I have a genetic disorder that means my lens is permanently detached, and floats around my eye. If my pupils dilate like normal then my lens actually isn't behind my pupil and I can't see anything, so I have to take these eye drops every three days to dilate my pupil so that I can see anything at all."

If you've ever been to the doctor you know that getting your pupils dilated is really annoying and if, like me, you have a reaction and can't get the drops to make them un-dilate then you have to wear those goofy shades all day long or the sun will give you a terrible headache. As it is after going to the eye doctor I usually just came home and crashed on the couch to sleep it off like some medically induced hang-over.

Anyway, so this friend of mine did that on purpose, ever three days, for his entire life. Oh, and I forgot to mention that we were in Brazil at the time, and spent about 70% of our time outdoors in the tropical sun.

But I never once heard him complain about it. Even after I asked he just shrugged it off. So I asked more about this syndrome he had. He also had to take heart pills which caused exceedingly uncomfortable side effects, but they were better than the alternative which was, if his heart rate ever got to high, his heart would explode. If he went for a jog he would die. Literally.

But no one ever knew about this because he never said a word. It made me feel terrible for complaining about the few things I ran into while in Brazil.

The point of that rambling story is that Nash is just like that. It's not that he doesn't talk about injuries, it's just that he shrugs them off. He jokes about them. Remember when he chipped his tooth and had that interview where he was lisping like crazy and he was just joking about it?

I don't think LeBron or Kobe try and use their injuries as excuses, because you rarely hear them blaming something other than themselves. But they still make it clear they're suffering through it because they have "the heart of a champion" or whatever.

Nash doesn't even allow himself that conceit. He just jokes about it and moves on. People don't know he has a back injury because he's not on the sideline wrapped in ice every game, he's grinning and hi-fiving way more than any man should hi-five.

So no, he doesn't get enough credit. But the thing that really makes him great is I don't think he cares.

Anonymous Anonymous said...
42-20 ft disparity despite near even shots at the rim. gj refs

Blogger Dooj said...
@anonymous

I was pointing out the distinction between KG punking guys like Calderon vs. Fisher going after guys his size or bigger. I think KG should be called out, but you can't ignore Fisher.

Anonymous Guy said...
Umm, not to question where you got your stats but Amare went 5-7 at the ft line in the 1st quarter. I believe he even missed his first ft attempt so how exactly was his 1st miss after they made 21 in a row? I mean he missed 4 out of 18. So youre saying he missed his other 3 fts in the 4th quarter cause i dont remember that? A little stat check would be nice if youre going to make it a point to point it out in ().

Is it me or Pumaman looked slow trying to catch up with Ray Allen? Or maybe Pumaman as a good Christian decied it was not cool to stay in the way of Jesus? The whole play can fall in the category of divine intervention - the ancient Allen outruns the uber athletic Howard.

Anonymous Stat Guy said...
I love these knee jerk reactions. Most of them are off and Karc was no exception. Let me start by pointing out Boston lost by 30 at home against the cavs and everyone wrote them off. How did that work out? The "bad" D everyone keeps speaking of was the Lakers holding the best offense in the league to 46% shooting. The best 3point shooting team to 25%. Look at the stats guys and then adjust for pace. If LA is going to average close to 120 and play the suns pace do your really think theyre going to hold the suns under 100? Sounds pretty dumb. The suns shooting 16fts before LA got one and 42 overall sounds like a bigger stat here. Nearly a 1/3 of Phoenix's points came at the line. If you want to talk about bad D, bring up the Laker's inability to play D without fouling. Not these misguided arguments that keep being made.

Blogger Wormboy said...
Y'know, I think Fish initiated that second tangle. On the replay, it was clear the Lopez ran in a straight line up the court, and Fish leaned into him to initiate contact.

Me, I've got no problem with that kind of gamesmanship, as long as it doesn't get dirty. Lopez is having a big night, the veteran messes with his head a bit. That's good gaming, and champions do that. Fish isn't Robert Horry, but he's in the same mold.

Blogger Cortez said...
"That's good gaming, and champions do that."

That's being a bully/pussy. Any bum can start using underhanded tactics that have nothing to do with the sport.

Truly great champions mess with their opponents heads by making big shots look routine and playing defense with such intensity and drive that their opponents can only wither in the face of it.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
I love these knee jerk reactions. Most of them are off and Karc was no exception. Let me start by pointing out Boston lost by 30 at home against the cavs and everyone wrote them off. How did that work out? The "bad" D everyone keeps speaking of was the Lakers holding the best offense in the league to 46% shooting. The best 3point shooting team to 25%. Look at the stats guys and then adjust for pace. If LA is going to average close to 120 and play the suns pace do your really think theyre going to hold the suns under 100? Sounds pretty dumb. The suns shooting 16fts before LA got one and 42 overall sounds like a bigger stat here. Nearly a 1/3 of Phoenix's points came at the line. If you want to talk about bad D, bring up the Laker's inability to play D without fouling. Not these misguided arguments that keep being made.

You know what I love? How someone calling himself "Stat Guy" failed to check the stats a little more carefully.

To wit: During the 2010 playoffs, the Lakers are giving up 109.4 points per 100 possessions. Among this year's playoff teams, that ranks them 9th in Defensive Rating...barely ahead of the Suns (109.6 points per 100 possessions).

9th out of 16 ain't great.

And by the way, L.A.'s pace (91.8) during the postseason is right on par with Boston's (91.2)...and the Celts are giving up only 98.6 points per 100 possessions and rank 1st in D-Rating during the playoffs despite facing teams that ranked 4th (the Magic) and 6th (the Cavs) in Offensive Rating during the regular season.

Not that it matters, because as I understand it, Defensive Rating takes pace into account.

Blogger Basketbawful said...
Truly great champions mess with their opponents heads by making big shots look routine and playing defense with such intensity and drive that their opponents can only wither in the face of it.

Amen.

Blogger Big-UpsTo#15 said...
White Chocolate must have still been pissed off that Rondo owned him on that hustle play... evidenced by all the F-bombs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jg3SJDLCQ

Anonymous Stat Guy said...
You know what i love? The fact that you couldnt read properly, smart guy. Never did i compare the Lakers D to boston, but since you brought it up: the lakers have held opponents to 42.9% shooting to 43.2% for boston. The lakers have held opponents 3pt shooting to 31.7 to bostons 31.3. Pretty close right? The main point of emphasis i brought up, if you cared to read, was LA's inability to defend without fouling. The lakers have given up 401 ft attempts in 13 games to bostons 385 in 14 games. The Lakers opponents have made 324 fts to bostons 289. Thats 35 more points. So please read PROPERLY before critiquing. Thank you

Blogger Basketbawful said...
You know what i love? The fact that you couldnt read properly, smart guy. ... The main point of emphasis i brought up, if you cared to read, was LA's inability to defend without fouling.

Sorry, today's fortune cookie told me not to respond to idiots, so I'm going to leave this one be.

Anonymous Stat Guy said...
Funny i got the same fortune cookie, but made an exception for you. Surprised you were able to read your fortune cookie properly. Congrats, your mother says you're reading at a 2nd grade level now.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Bawful, let me try!

Stat Guy, you said to look at the stats and adjust for pace. BasketBawful then brought up the stats that adjust for pace. ... And then you continue to use percentages and raw values. Ok there, Stat Champ.

Second, the "main point of emphasis you brought up" sure seemed like accusing incorrect knee-jerk reactions and defending against "bad D" accusations on the Lakers. But the arguments made were valid, and no more or less "misguided" than the point you made about Free Throws.

In conclusion, you are stupid. Thank you

Anonymous Stat Guy said...
I stated look at pace in reference to the suns. They are first in pace and off rating. Never did i mention other teams. Basketbawful chose to take that line and run with it as a whole for the playoffs. The raw numbers i posted seem to follow my line of thinking. Wouldnt points per possession go up if teams were constantly scoring at the ft line? Im agreeing the Lakers D has been bad, but not for the reasons being stated. And as we know, whistles can change from series to series. So the knee-jerk reaction to "Can we just hand the title to Boston at this point?" is "misguided."

@ Anaconda - And according to you, after reports of kobe getting his knee drained you stated, "Great he'll probably shoot a ton to prove he isnt injured and the suns will win." For the series Kobe is averaging 32pts, 6 rebs, 11asts on 52% shooting. Should we call you stupid for being incorrect or was that just another one of your valid arguments? Either way im done. Pointless to debate with guys unwilling to see others POV. Stat guy out

Anonymous Bryan said...
Not to take sides in the argument but Dan Devine just wrote an article on the same thing Stat Guy is arguing by detailing the Suns 2nd quarter. The Lakers held the Suns to 7-21 shooting but lost the quarter by 10 cuz they gave up 9 pts at the charity stripe. Seems Stat Guy isnt the only one who feels the same. But who knows maybe Yahoo is dumb too?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/A-look-at-the-lousy-quarter-that-gave-the-Suns-n;_ylt=AozjdxgSP9zgZuCkuoc5B1m8vLYF?urn=nba,243347

Blogger Basketbawful said...
Not to take sides in the argument but Dan Devine just wrote an article on the same thing Stat Guy is arguing by detailing the Suns 2nd quarter. The Lakers held the Suns to 7-21 shooting but lost the quarter by 10 cuz they gave up 9 pts at the charity stripe. Seems Stat Guy isnt the only one who feels the same. But who knows maybe Yahoo is dumb too?

But my argument is that the argument isn't knee-jerk...this isn't a case of the Lakers struggling defensively only against the Suns because Phoenix got to the line a lot in one game. For the entire playoffs they are giving up almost as many points per 100 possessions as the Suns. Defensive Rating adjusts for all the things Stat Guy is arguing...so, to me, they become moot points. I'm looking at a broader sample (being all of L.A.'s playoff games) than one game against the Suns, or even three games against the Suns.

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Everything I've ever written and will write ever will literally be literal and 100% serious and never a joke ever. That way, no one can ever scour the Internet to take something out of context to try and make me look stupid!

Blogger AnacondaHL said...
Honestly, I've never seen so much Strawman spewed before in my life.

Blogger David Robinson said...
shouldn't that be SVG's hot tub time machine??

it only makes sense.

Anonymous Bryan said...
I hear ya. Just felt that stat guy was arguing that over the course of the playoffs the main weakness of the Lakers D has been their inability to defend without fouling and he seems to raise a decent point. He seems to believe its something correctable and to crown the celtics the champs already is a little premature. Maybe you and anaconda took it out of context or maybe stat guy fails to realize that if the lakers have been doing it over the entire playoffs its less of a knee jerk reaction and more of a consistent problem.

Anonymous Stat Guy said...
@Anaconda - Strawman deals with a manufactured resistance to an issue. How is that what im doing? The issue is Lakers play bad D. I agreed. Its just Basketbawful believes its for one reason i believe its for another so essentially we agree on the issue just for diff reasons. I never intended to make this such a big deal but i found his response/tone to my original post to be a little offensive. Truth is i enjoy reading this blog and hearing the opinions. Just felt compelled to add my 2 cents. Then you jumped in calling me stupid based on one point taken out of context. So i pointed to the absurdity of that by taking one quote from you and making a generalized deduction from it. Funny how that works right? Whether my points are moot or not i feel fouls not only add points to a teams pt total but get starters in foul trouble. Which leads to lesser players having to play more minutes. But i guess im wrong. Thanks anyways Bryan and Dan Devine. lol

Blogger Basketbawful said...
He seems to believe its something correctable and to crown the celtics the champs already is a little premature...

If you read the comment I left at about 10:30 a.m. on this very post, you'll see that I specifically said I was NOT crowning the Celtics. And, frankly, I don't think Karc was either. He was using hyperbole to describe L.A.'s crappy D.

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